I dislike vultures, it's okay for any guy to dislike vultures. What Rick is doing is being a vulture. Sure it's okay for girls to have friend, but when they are hovering and not acknowledging the guy, that's disrespectful. When you're part of a unit, there are unspoken agreements, one is that you introduce your friends, if you do that and one friend hates the other, you make a point to have time with that friend, and never bring the two into contact. Rick feels slimy and possessive, all you've shown us is him being kinda iffy, the reason we get defensive is he is not developed enough, we don't really know him and he says these possessive things over a character we feel more attached to.
I see the issue as less to do with the thought that she would leave him, and more to do with the idea that the other guy doesn't respect their relationship. From there everything seems to be spiraling out of control from bad communication.
And thus, comments become canon. Also, Peter earns points for more or less being the only one to show any sort of levelheadedness here, and Patrick gets points for effectively using song lyrics as they apply to real-life situations in a hilarious manner. Well done, sir.
@Jess: So, Mulli deserves a beatdown for a word, while the girls can freely throw around terms like 'neanderthal bullshit' and 'you dogs gotta protect your bone' and that's all well and good? Gotcha. Nice double standard, there. Mulli's calling it like he sees it, much like the rest of the characters. Just because his opinions and terminology differs from the girls' and most likely offends them doesn't justify repression, violence or drinks to the face, and it certainly doesn't warrant celebration.
Honestly, it really bothers me that people can, on the one hand, condemn Sam's punch and general immaturity (as well we all should), while at the same time casually wishing violence on someone else just because they happen to believe he's a douche. Hell, even Peter regretted what he did to Devon, and that guy was hated to a much greater degree by the characters and readers. Why? Because he was violent with Melanie.
That aside, I can't help but smile when I read Peter's comments, which mirror my own toward the whole Rick/Lauren dynamic early on. However, as time wore on, I kept wanting Rick to at least acknowledge Sam other than negatively, either to Lauren or Sam himself. In my mind, that would have helped Sam cope with this better. I'm not saying Rick had to become friends with everyone Lauren knows, but how about some basic recognition of her boyfriend as an important person in her life? Is that really too much to ask? Is his constant reinforcement of his own negative views on Sam, a man he barely knows, as well as his ignorance of him when in his presence (a natural extension of his preconceptions, all things considered), really a healthy thing that shouldn't throw up any red flags when the people concerned notice it?
Again, it bears mentioning that Sam didn't manage his own emotions well at all, but I feel that as the drama wore on, it became more about Sam's views on the way Rick actually treated him than his friendship with Lauren. It all began with Christo's comments, which were straight up 'man and woman can't be friends if there's attraction', and the seed was planted in Sam. However, this all culminated with Sam's question as to why Rick couldn't even acknowledge him, and Lauren's inability to answer that. At this point, some walking away for cooldown time would've been ideal, but Sam clearly fucked things up big time. To the people around him, and especially Lauren, of course he looks like a 'dog protecting his bone'. While this doesn't really surprise me from Michelle, Kara, Mel et al, I have a hard time understanding why this didn't reach Lauren. Of course, on the other hand, Sam laid a man out. He lost control. When you do that, it pretty much negates any point you may have had beforehand. Too bad for Sam and Lauren...
Of course, I may just be letting my own worldview colour all this. After all, if I were friendly with a woman and she came up to me and my girlfriend and only paid attention to me, I would be concerned. If this attitude was preceded by her waxing negative on said girlfriend, all sorts of bells would be ringing, and I would be sure to rectify this. Why? Because I love my girlfriend and wouldn't stand idly by while she was so blatantly disrespected. Now, I don't mean to say that I'd want anyone who talked to me at a bar or at a party to also make sure to say 'hi' to her, especially if we're not right next to each other or if were engaged in our own separate conversations, as this would be just ridiculous. I'm talking about a situation like what was presented in the panels. That said, if my girlfriend lost it and jumped on the other woman, that would most certainly be a 'WTF?' moment for me.
@Frankie D.: Oh yeah, that word is silly beyond measure, to be sure. I hear it thrown around at women whose opinions differ from those of the people using said word, especially when those women are recognized as strong, no-nonsense types who say what they feel. It's incredibly negative. However, to wish violence because of its use? That's going too far, especially when such violence has just been condemned when coming from a man.
@Dragonus45: I agree, Sam has even said in the past that Lauren doesn't belong to him, so the whole conversation they are having in this regard is not relevant, at least in terms of the current situation.
--yes I believe there are guys that think that way (ugh), but I don't think that Sam is one of them.
And Peter, yes, a guy can like someone's girlfriend, and not want to break them up, but seriously, that person is SOO not Rick, or if it is, he's REALLY bad at coming across that way.
So... can someone make the argument about what girls do when other girls show interest in their guys?
Please? It was only ever mentioned once by Christo to Lauren and then a bit more by Kara. And it was mostly dismissed. Which irritates me as a female, tbh. I call bullshit that any of those females would take it well that another chick was all up on their guys. Especially Michelle. Hell, maybe even Melanie. You all saw the tiny hints of reservations she had with Andy before they left for tour.
And I didn't see it as Sam not believing Lauren when she says they're just friends. It's just the fact that it's obvious that Rick doesn't wanna be just friends. Also...
Sure, Peter. A guy could do that. I know you did that yourself with Lauren before Kara got into him. But you don't know...
In fact, I'm gonna start just saying this from now on. Not one of them knows diddly squat about what's happening or has happened.
@comicgirl: It is certainly true that they are actually pretty clueless on the recent happenings, since they've been on tour. So for them to be chiming in, knowing nothing about the situation, is kind of funny, but not... they are basing Lauren and Sam's situation based on what just happened, and that's only the tip of the iceberg. We'll see.
And yes, I find it hard to believe that any of them wouldn't have a problem with someone like Rick trying to sabotage their relationship. We've already seen Michelle basically threaten to kill Kara if she did anything to hurt Peter, so I wouldn't really be surprised ;) though, I could see Michelle letting insecurities get the best of her and just breaking down/shutting down instead of kicking ass, but who am I to say---everyone handles that kind of thing differently, but I imagine it still hurts.
@Jeffko: oh i'm sorry, I didn't realise comparing a feminist to a NAZI was appropriate or not offensive to an entire minority of people. Last I checked feminists didn't slaughter a minority of people to further their own agenda.
Mulligan using FEMINAZI is disgraceful. Petty insults are one thing, blatant disregard for what the word Nazi is associated with should be dealt with. I would say the same thing if someone had caller Sam or Cristo a Nigger. It's got NOTHING to do with gender you tool. It's because Feminazi is a term used to degrade and attack anyone who believe in equal rights for women and actually does something about it. Or maybe you didn't know that being male, because you have your privilege too far up your arse to realise that feminazi is degrading to both feminists and Jews.
I'm soooo sorry that I offend you with my hatred for such careless words. Get your head out of your arse.
@Jess: Did I ever say I approved of the term Feminazi? Did I celebrate its use? Far from it. In fact, I expanded on my dislike for it in a separate comment in answer to another reader. All I said was that to wish VIOLENCE so casually on someone for a word was beyond the pale, especially since Sam's violence at Rick's words beforehand is being universally condemend here, as it should be.
That Rick's words were not filled with bigotry is not the issue here. The issue is that violence ensued as a result of those words. As I said, Mulli was being quite himself there, i.e. an asshole, and while this doesn't deserve celebration in the least, as I've already said, it doesn't deserve violence, either.
But go ahead and keep calling me a tool and a privileged male, if that makes you feel any better about justifying your use of violence and other physical acts.
@Jeffko: You compared how offensive Feminazi was to calling mulligan an arsehole. They are not on the same level.
And I don't justify violence, I think he should get punched in the face, and I don't like the fact that I think he should. I never said I liked the fact that I think he would deserve it. But I made that opinion. I need no justification.
@Jess: Please be more respectful when addressing other commenters. I won't tolerate that kind of name-calling, if the conversation can't be conducted civilly, it won't be allowed, regardless of the validity of your point.
@Guest: I compared 'feminazi' to 'neanderthal bullshit' and 'you dogs gotta protect your bone'. Calling not just a single person, but an entire gender,'dogs' and likening them to 'neanderthals' is just as negative as calling a woman a 'feminazi' in my book. Both are bad. Neither justify violence. As for your distaste at the fact that you thought that, well I guess these are the limitations of the Internet. From your comment, I could not determine that you felt bad writing that. You said that you 'hope Mulligan gets beat for that feminazi comment'. When someone hopes for something, I think it's fair to assume they want it to happen and wouldn't feel bad if it did.
Obviously, some words hit people's nerves more than others. I was just irritated by the fact that, while Michelle could apparently get away with bumping a drink in someone's face, even Mulligan, and make sweeping generalizations about men, no such considerations were allowed to Mulligan, who was called on it.
Again, let me be clear: Mulligan's language is messed up. Not gonna deny that. However, what I'm getting from Michelle, and a bit from Mel, is also messed up. You called out Mulligan specifically. I guess that hit my own nerve as much as Mulligan hit yours.
Clearly, I offended you, Jess, and I apologize. I just wanted to get my point across, as you did. This group of readers is among the most well-spoken in all of online comicdom, and I wouldn't want to besmirch it.
@Guest: I understand impassioned reaction, and I encourage debate. I can't allow the name-calling, that's all. It's a slippery slope from intelligent discourse to internet flame war, and sometimes all it takes is one poorly-chosen word. For what it's worth, I relate to your thoughts on that term.
@Jeffko: Like I said to Mr. Twist, I do get very hot-headed, and I am quite opinionated which really doesn't help. I do not think I conveyed what I was thinking very well in my first comment, and obviously I was not calm in my second and you did assume which also got on my nerves. I will be more polite in future as I do regret the name calling.
I do understand that the girls comments are sexist (and that by being female they do get away with being sexist a little more than males). I also understand that Mulligan seems to be written to be offensive, so he is well written.
My understanding is that the girls are more on Lauren's side, feeling like Sam is treating her like a possession and are also replying to mulligan's comment of "nosing around my girl". My understanding is that he's emphasised the 'my'.
@Guest: S'all good, Jess. If people didn't have any passion, the world would be a very dull place. I'll try to ease up on assumptions from now on.
Reading this page again, it's clear that Mel and Michelle are talking about Sam's actions, based on what they know (as opposed to what us readers know) and reacting to Mulligan's own language. I made a point about their comparison of men to dogs, but then again Mulli follows it up with a comment on 'sniffing ass', which I now realize basically proves Michelle's point. However, while Mulligan initially keeps it personal, emphasizing 'my', as you said, Michelle went broader, with other, perfectly reasonable men sitting right next to her at the table. Are her comments also meant to include Andy, Peter, Andy and Wiley? While Mulligan definitely lacks class and restraint, Michelle ain't coming out of this smelling like a rose, either. However, as you've said, this is how Mr. Twist wants them to be and he does it well.
As for the ladies being more on Lauren's side, I agree with you. Furthermore, they've had the chance to hear Lauren's side of this, while the fellas were on tour and are just now getting sucked in, which obviously fueled Lauren's anger at them when they unequivocally sided with Sam after he punched Rick.
I'm a little disappointed that this argument is being so evenly divided by gender (Peter being, of course, the exception that proves every rule- poor guy keeps thinking other people hold themselves to the same high standards he has for himself. He's going to be so miserable/repeatedly screwed until he learns to let go of that...) especially since Michelle has ADMITTED that there's something off about Rick, and Kara has showed a lot of insight into the legitimacy of Sam's unhappiness.
@Jess All that privilege meaning equal opportunity to scholarships, because we are white and male, right? Not Because of the countless scholarships out there fore anyone but. Privileged in that we are so accepted as anything but straight right, that society has already put us to on a pedestal right? I take offense, we may be trained to be better workers, which therefore causes a wage gap... But privileged, no, in terms of emotional acceptance, and support, white males have nothing.
@RL: You are kidding right? Are there politicians (White and male) arguing over your re-productive organs? didn't think so. Do you get a lower superannuation rate because of your gender? No. Can you be fired or pushed out of a job and looked over for promotion because you might have a family? No.
In no way are we gender equals. There are very little cases in which males are oppressed. Believing you are means you are ignoring the facts.
@Jess Explain to me why the suicide rate of males is three times that of female in the US. It's because we have no where to go. The only reason there is a wage gap is because males have had more time in the office, and they deal with rejection better. As for the pregnancy, it make common sense, that's just something that happens. Plus this year, in the senate and house, there are far more women in office than ever before. Men do not have a history of intense repression, we have a history of being told we have to be a certain way, because that's the way males are supposed to be.
@Jess I've done all kinds of research into this, I just don't see how fighting, for equality on both ends of the spectrum is a bad thing, I'd say that both sides have been discriminated against in someway. The feminist view does hold more validity than discrimination against men, but i think you're so wrong when you say men have more opportunity, maybe certainly financially and politically, but certainly not with expression or emotion and sexual identity.
@Jess: Ever heard of 'Girl Writes What'? She has a series of YouTube videos about feminism and effects on gender issues (warning: each vid can last anywhere from 25 to 40 minutes). I'm not sure which vid came first, so I can't give you the best starting point, but it's all there in her channel.