In regards to yesterday's page, while I don't want to give away too much, I have to be honest and say that it never occurred to me that people would read Andy's reaction as jealousy. Maybe it should have, but it didn't. For shame, yaoi fangirls...for shame...I gave you a kiss, don't try to take a threesome!
Ah, but I still love you. I'll give you some more boy-lovin' soon enough. Don't forget to vote!
Mr. Hogan is officially the worst father ever. His daughter just got the crap beat out of her by her boyfriend and his response is "You should have come home for safety even though he knows where you live and probably would come here first to find you. Oh, and nevermind that beat your face in; it was just a simple mistake and I can fix it so it'll be like he never hit you and hopefully he maybe won't do it again."? I can't headdesk or facepalm hard enough.
Well, I will honestly say that I would love to be on the other side of the line. To hear how her father would react... Interesting. It is a shame that her father will not listen to what she is saying, however I like the idea of her not wanting it to be "fixed."
In other news, Pictures of You is sitting tight at number 6 at Webcomicz.com and has fallen a little back on TWC.com currently at 53.
As Mister Twist said, don't forget to vote."
That's the worst thing ever...Not getting any backup at all from the parents is frightening. My dad (a cop too lol) would totally react like Peter when someone would do me serious harm as happened to Melanie. Very very sad update...*goes to vote to cheer up some*
LOL Gibson Twist you underestimate the powers of yaoi! Every look is a look of seething repressed jealousy, every hate is love, every friendship is love, every relationship of any kind is love, every touch is a desperate plea for love and every smile is a repressed proposal waiting to happen.
Just be glad the Patrick/Devon shippers are either staying quiet or thankfully non-existent. "That was mine" takes on a whole new meaning...
[as I said on the last page though, I personally can't ship POY characters. They have to much power of their own]
To people saying the dad is a shit dad, though I agree I feel like I should point out that she didn't say 'Devon beat the crap out of me'. All she said was she hurt him, she may not have told the full story to her parents and kind of withheld the full details.
Still makes him pretty shit for being so stubborn, but if that is the case it would mean he's desperately trying to 'fix' their relationship and have Melanie somewhere he feels is safe and that he can protect her instead of a group of college potheads he's not too sure about.
And like SuperBiasedMan said, its true she just said 'Devon hurt me" and that can be interpreted in different ways. And as she pointed out bfore, her family (but her brother) loves him.
Never the less... what an asshole.
WORST.DAD.EVER. My dad wasn't great either early on in my life but if someone else hurt me he'd be ready to protect me at least. I couldn't imagine what my dad would do if I were in Melanie's situation. He'd probably kill the guy. Maybe Melanie's dad is in so much shock he can't comprehend this OR maybe he beats his wife and is siding with Devon. Who knows. Either way he's being retarded right now.
EDIT: Just read SuperBiasedMan's comment and I agree but still...even if it was only emotional pain he should be backing her up. But her words about having to be "safe" and him "coming to get her" would send me into a rage because those red flags just would have set off sirens in my head. If he'd rather protect her then he needs to take her side so that she comes to him.
Yeah see if I said "Daddy someone hurt me" he wouldn't care how or why or what happened, he'd be loading a two by four in his truck and hunting someone down. In fact, he doesn't know how to handle my being gay because he feels he can't threaten girls. XD
I may be a biased man, in fact I'm fairly sure I am...
And yes, her dad is still being a dick, but people are quick to judge as nothing but an unredeemable dick without thinking about what his perspective is. I'm not saying what he's doing is right, but it's still worth thinking about it rather than condemning him based on assumptions.
Also 'bad' is a relative term and doesn't mean that a person is incapable of doing good.
To be or not to be a Dick....
Hmmmm.... Is daddy being a dick or is daddy just being daddy? One thought is, he is a protective dad, probably knowing his young beloved daughter has been dating a wack-job. I think a 'normal' parental response to one of your children being hurt is 'come home, I'll protect & love you as well as hammer the person who hurt you'.
Another thought is, she was dating an over-bearing, somewhat emotionally abusive control freak who is just like her dad. Human behavior is consistent and people tend to go with what they know.
It'll be interesting to see how this plays out......
First, I'm annoyed at myself for seeing Melanie's face and thinking "Her face is healing, at least a few days have passed" before anything else. Not "Good, she's healing" or "Nice to see she doesn't seem to have permanent marks". A time indication. What am I, a fanboy?
Second, do I have to state again that this is beautifully rendered? Let's assume I do. This is beautifully rendered. Oh, that hand on panel 8. More on Mr. Twist's art of ambiguity below.
AJ_189, Murohshei, Hornet, Laura, Tracy Smith and all of us heaping burning coals on Mr. Hogan's head: remember, the last time someone was condemned for being judgmental (the irony of which being apparently lost on most people), it turned out the "judgmental" person did the right thing (or did something right at least) and another, thus far cooler guy turned out to be the harshest one. (And of course, Peter and Andy have been pretty judgmental at Devon thereafter, but for some reason no one minded. Not even me.)
SuperBiasedMan, you do indeed make an excellent point. I'm with pretty much everyone about Mr. Hogan being wrong about a lot of things, but I'd think twice before condemning him too harshly.
Based on what we've seen so far, Mr. Hogan's worst sin is, therefore, his inability to see how wrong Devon was for Melanie. In which he was not alone - even Patrick, who hated Devon with a passion, didn't remotely envision that he could beat Melanie. (Or else he'd have insisted on going along in http://picturesofyou.smackjeeves.com/comics/858799/3-ii-05-run-and-hide-4/ .) So no, Mr. Hogan, who has presumably seen nothing but Devon's more agreeable side, cannot even imagine he would hurt Melanie physically. When she says "he hurt me", he has every right to understand he's hurt her feelings with a clumsy, snapping remark. Which is, of course, no real cause for running away and breaking up if you're going to be a long-term couple. A parent knows this, a twentysomething not necessarily.
Note that Melanie makes no strong effort to explain herself either. I'm not saying she should; rather, I'm praising again Mr. Twist's writing ability for making her unclearness believable. I intended to do a point-by-point show of how Melanie is lying and avoiding the full truth, but it really ran too long. Actually, the simplest thing would be to come home with her ruined face. She doesn't.
It may well be that she's afraid that her father will side with Devon anyway. It might be so. (And if it is, I'll be roaring with the rest of you.) But nothing here allows us to accuse Mr. Hogan of being such an awful father.
And anyway, even should you find him guilty in the end, do ponder the penalty with moderation. We have a man here, whose daughter has told him she needs to be safe - and doesn't go to him for protection. What more punishment would you need to apply? He isn't in Dad Hell yet, but he sure is close to the gates.
A few more points:
AJ_189 and Murohshei: I'd love Mr. Hogan to be the worst father ever. Think about it. No child molesters, no infanticide, no drug dealers using their kids as couriers, no forced child labor ... Now pretty please, do grow up before saying that and twisting words.
Hornet: do you have a daughter? I do. If she was avoiding the house for days and called to talk, the last thing I'd do would be to come to her. Because if she's avoiding the house, she's avoiding me. I would certainly ask if she wanted me to come to her - just in case she's avoiding someone else in our building, or somesuch - but if she said no I'd leave her alone like she asks. And Devon isn't wormtonguing his way into the Hogan family. Peter has seen to that.
Guest: we don't know that he's a bad dad. He isn't good, and he's failing badly with Patrick, but we don't know the whole story and I showed above how his abuse may be based on genuine concern.
JD, I appreciate your seeming zeal for the comic, but come on, some of your posts are just way too long and are probably intimidating to other posters, especially newcomers. Brevity is the soul of wit. You don't have to counterpoint everything that's said. A friendly request from me, please be briefer.
At least to make it not so one-sided, Melanie apparently did not specify the extent of what happened. She's only telling Daddy, "He hurt me" and for all he knows it was just an argument and hurt feelings. He may not even know physical violence was involved. He could be thinking his little princess is just throwing a tantrum and he has to make it all better.
Not saying what he says is right, just that he may not know exactly what happened.
No one else mentioned it yet, I love Kara's expression in panel 5. Not just her expression but her entire being there is a very subtle yet nice touch. Her expression looks like one of a sad friend who is disappointed she can't help out much with Melonie's situation. However the fact that she's there with Melonie simply supporting her is wonderful and might have given Mel the courage to call her dad in the first place (assuming of course she called him not the other way around) as for her father I can sense he really has no clue what's going on there and is just confused and trying to help, he doesn't realize what kind of relationship mel had with Devon because when devon was over i Highly doubt he was anything but a perfect gentlemen aorund her parents. So her father is probably assuming a simple bad break completely unaware of the current situation
Just a quick update,
that in just a bit over twenty-four hours, PoY has reached the top five at Webcomicz.com, climbing to #4, but falling to #54 at TWC. I just want to say we are the best fans ever, so keep up the good work every one. I will be back Sunday for any more updates (unless you all want me to stop).
Hey, PoY is up on the TWC from floating around 400 to floating around 50. That's huge and I am ever so grateful for every vote made. I'm going to try to produce more incentives for folks who are voting through the week, and next month I have something in store that I hope will entice even more people to vote. This has been a successful campaign so far, and you're right. You guys are the best fans out there.
For amazing us with awesome art and a brilliant storyline, you deserve the best fans XD
@ jd_singer: I am having quite fun interpreting the webcomic the way I see it ^_^ Only stating my two cents on it, it doesn't HAVE to be the way I "think" it could be ^^
And Mr Twist, me living in Europe, with this comic my mondays became a lot brighter, cause you do seem to update the moment I check the internets at 7am-something before going to work *thumbs up for that*
All right, it seems that Mr. Hogan's character struck a little too close to home with me. Apologies to any annoyed, irritated, irked or intimidated. (And, of course, to Mr. Twist for spreading such an awfully large stain on the comments.)
I've trimmed the thing down, to what is still a very large size. Maybe I should have summed it up with "Who among you is a father? Raise your hands? The rest of you, please live through it before passing judgment", but though I revere wit, I'm trying for accuracy.
EDIT: And I agree with the reactions below that I shouldn't have even written this "live through it" sentence. It was a gross exaggeration.
I'm afraid I will keep posting larger than average comments, simply because I feel there is much to be told. (And if there were a way to make links shorter, like printing only something like "http://pictu..." instead of the whole address, my habit of posting links to the pages that make my points would not make my posts so long.) But I'll also try to watch it. Honest.
Redcrow: he's a good dad.
1) He accepts his daughter's boyfriend with open arms.
2) He supports his son financially, complete with a separate apartment large enough to throw parties, despite strongly disagreeing with his way of life.
3) He mellows out to Patrick as soon as he hears what he hopes to.
All right, so I was being provocative: he isn't a good dad. He's wrong on a lot of things, and he thinks too much he knows best. And he should probably have gotten off his ass and helped Karen with that Christmas meal. But you can't make a list of the wrongs one person has done and judge him solely on them. Or else we're all doomed.
(And he isn't managing Melanie's intimate affairs, he's proposing help to mend a relationship he - mistakenly - thinks is good for Melanie.)
LeyLegbreaker: we're all doing so, but I see no issue in pointing out why the webcomic cannot match someone's interpretation. And vice versa, of course.
Redcrow: I hope I didn't ask the question rudely. I sure did it defensively.
And truly, the same way you don't have to be a virtuoso to know when someone plays off-key, you don't have to be a father to know when one makes mistakes.
But there are certain children - not all of them, thankfully - with whom you don't have a choice between doing the right thing and doing the wrong thing. You can only choose between a set of mistakes. It's something I never realized before having children of my own.
I've been where you are, and sure enough I've heaped criticism on my parents. (Come to think of it, I did it quite rudely at times, and my brothers were even worse.)
To take up the above analogy again, raising certain children is akin to having to play a guitar in which the strings are all out of tune, the pegheads do not keep the same note from a minute to the next and the frets are all misplaced.
Can you imagine that? And can you imagine someone calling you stupid and inept because you didn't play the music right?
Now tell me: wouldn't your first reaction be to thrust the guitar into the critic's hands and suggest they try it? Maybe even a little defensively and rudely?
reidavidson, you are welcome to PM me that this post or any other should be edited or deleted. I'm far less defensive about my writing than about my parenting.
JD, that might be the guitarist's first reaction, but the guitarist would still be an asshole for reacting that way. Your analogy is weak, though, in that any guitarist who would play such an instrument publicly would have figured out how to play it. Playing it otherwise makes them a bad guitarist, calling them stupid and inept for playing such an instrument is appropriate, if rude, though no decent critic would say those things.
Again, the analogy is weak and might lead one to think you're calling your children broken. A better analogy would be writing a story on a keyboard with no backspace key, and once you write a word it is written. If you make mistakes, they are made and you can only deal with the consequences of them and how they change the story.
I know exactly how hard it is to be a parent, and I'm sure a lot of other people do. It isn't mystifying, no matter how much parents want to think they are misunderstood. I know how hard it is to be a cop, I know how hard it is to be a soldier and I know how hard it is to be a priest. In all of these things, as with any position of great responsibility, there are definable wrongs and no amount of perspective will make them right. While I'm not saying this is the situation in the story right now, the supposition that one has to be a parent or a cop or a soldier or a priest to judge those who do wrong in these is, pardon the expression, bullshit, pure and utter.
Also, the links aren't what make your posts long. What makes your posts long is this idea you seem to have about being the keeper of all knowledge about this comic, the notion that you have a clearer vision about it than anyone, to the point that you've even argued with me about it. This is especially amusing when you get the characters' names wrong on consistent basis, and are generally bad at predicting what happens next.
At any rate, while I enjoy the discourse in these comments, what I won't abide is sanctimonious condescension from a fool and I think I've let it go on long enough. If you enjoy posting here, tame it down.
Ow. All right, I'd better back down again and this time get it right. So: apologies again to any people I've offended, hurt or otherwise distressed. It's been yet another busy weekend and the "live through it" remark shouldn't have been written. I've edited the above comment to make it clear. (As a side note, that's what I get when trying for conciseness. I have to keep trying, but hopefully on less controversial topics.)
Mr. Twist, I told my wife about the analogy after writing it and she made the exact same criticism about calling the child broken. If two smart people get my point wrong, it's that I didn't put it right. I meant to compare *playing* the guitar to *the situation of raising* the child. In both cases, you can only try for the best while knowing you'll get it wrong all too often. And I said "having to play", which leaves out any notion of choice for the guitarist. I don't know, assume your life, your honor, your self-respect or what have you is at stake so you have to play *right*now* on this guitar someone just lent you and you slowly realize how broken it is while already playing it. (Just trying desperately to make it clear.)
I like your keyboard analogy, and your comparison to priests, cops and soldiers. And I fully agree that there are absolute wrongs that take no expert to reckon. Quite true. I still think that there are situations in which criticizing a parent comes much easier if you have never been one, and I should have put it that way from the beginning. (Anyone who thinks otherwise, fine. Let's agree to disagree for now.)
Now, the long links aren't what make my posts long, but they don't help either. I only mentioned that because the site is about to undergo changes and that would be one I would like.
I'm no keeper of knowledge. Just trying to make sure what I thought I remembered was valid, and keeping the reference handy in case I have to argue the point. I don't have a clearer vision than anyone. Just a big mouth about it. And when we argued about some of the Snapshot artists' graphical choices, you didn't come across as offended and I don't see how I came across then as having a clearer vision than anyone.
I agree that this has gone on too long and have been writing this just to indicate there might be more to this commenter than a sanctimonious, condescending, foolish asshole. I repeat my apologies. And people, next time I get something wrong (be it character names, past events, future events, real-world physics, historical facts, mathematical axioms or what have you), feel free to point it out. Thanks.
your last post had a hint of sarcasm and smart-assness. Just let it go and don't feel so butt-hurt due to the fact that the AUTHOR told you to stop being a damn pretentious know it all, man. its a bloody comic, and while it does have depth it is in no way a literary masterpiece of the ages to be broken down bit by bit. stop being a bitch about it.
sorry for the douchebagness is all you needed to say.